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21

Thursday, November 8th 2012, 3:25am

I'm playing with this now - how does one represent AA guns and torpedo reloads, as the spreadsheet only asks for the main deck gun and the number of tubes...

Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

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22

Thursday, November 8th 2012, 4:08am

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Edit: though maybe we need to make a note/rule about simming guns. For various reasons, SubSim only allows one box for guns, and only calculates one gun of that type. If you have more than two types of guns or more than one gun of the same type, it needs to be accounted for using miscellaneous weight. Similarly, like Springsharp, reload torpedoes are not accounted for in weight, and so miscellaneous weight needs to account for any reloads.

23

Thursday, November 8th 2012, 4:10am

You're a good man, Kaiser Kirk, and evidently I'm a blind one.

24

Thursday, November 8th 2012, 4:24am

Also make sure you have the correct version of SubSim - does it give you a result for light displacement? If not, I can give you the right one.

When simming my own submarines, I use the miscellaneous weight to cover spare guns, and use the "mines" box to account for reload torpedoes. SubSim allows one ton of weight per mine, so you can simply switch out mines for torpedoes on a two for one basis.

25

Thursday, November 8th 2012, 4:28am

This is the ultimate version of SubSim that I've seen - some versions apparently lack the "Light Displacement" box, which is rather important for Wesworld uses...

26

Tuesday, February 24th 2015, 4:54am

Quoted

For various reasons, SubSim only allows one box for guns, and only calculates one gun of that type. If you have more than two types of guns or more than one gun of the same type, it needs to be accounted for using miscellaneous weight.

I was working a bit with Subsim for the I-310 sub, but wasn't sure about multiple guns. Now that I know this by finding this thread, what about the crew? Do I add the same amount of men to the miscellaneous crew for each additional gun or does it depend on the guns? 6 men for one 105mm gun I can understand but it seems a bit much for a single 25mm machinegun.

27

Tuesday, February 24th 2015, 9:31am

I'd say an extra two men for another 25mm would suffice.

I'm glad you resurrected this thread because I was trying to find it the other day. I have another query. Reading back on my previous comments I was staunchly in favour of only using SubSim for new designs. However, I'm toying with the idea of doing some rebuilds akin to the historical S-Class modernisations in Britain, where some of the subs received longer aft hulls to allow more room for electric motors etc.
This would fall under the most expensive rebuild categories according to our rules. Should I just use the old SS report and add the extra length etc. or resim in SubSim?

28

Tuesday, February 24th 2015, 2:05pm

I would say whatever simulator you used to sim the sub should be reused to sim it as rebuilt. In your case it would be springsharp. You could always try and sim the same rebuilt sub in sub builder using the new Springsharp specs. It seems like extra work but IMO it makes things more transparent and allows for comparison.

29

Tuesday, February 24th 2015, 2:29pm

I'd say an extra two men for another 25mm would suffice.

I'm glad you resurrected this thread because I was trying to find it the other day. I have another query. Reading back on my previous comments I was staunchly in favour of only using SubSim for new designs. However, I'm toying with the idea of doing some rebuilds akin to the historical S-Class modernisations in Britain, where some of the subs received longer aft hulls to allow more room for electric motors etc.
This would fall under the most expensive rebuild categories according to our rules. Should I just use the old SS report and add the extra length etc. or resim in SubSim?

One of the potential shortfalls in SubSim is that it doesn't have a separate category for "when the hull was built" versus "when the engine was built". So if you re-sim it in SubSim, you can't really say "This hull was built in 1938 but we replaced the engines in 1946." SubSim just looks at the boat and says "1946 boat - treat like it's new!" This has some effect on things like underwater performance, which will probably rise substantially under the rebuild. (If you're doing such a comprehensive rebuild, though, I imagine it could be worked out IC as "hull streamlining and optimization" or something.)

Personally, though, I'd re-sim the original in SubSim, carefully make those design changes, and then ask for a reality check - is the resulting redesigned boat massively faster or deeper-diving than the original?

30

Tuesday, February 24th 2015, 3:27pm

Another thing I noticed is that anything entered between 2cm and 4cm is the same when it comes to weight.

Quoted

I'd say an extra two men for another 25mm would suffice.

Seems more reasonable for something like a single 30mm gun or smaller with one guys shooting, one guy directing and two guys loading.
There is this picture of a single 20mm gun with 6 guys...

... but that is on a battleship. You really do not have the space for that on a submarine.


Rebuilding a ship and going from SpringSharp to SubSim is going to be tricky. Hell, even if you only have a SubSim of the sub, it is going to be tricky.

Perhaps looking at SS and seem how much % the increase would be and add that to the original year values in SubSim or perhaps only a 25-50% increase compared to the increase of the old and new sim.

31

Wednesday, February 25th 2015, 9:29am

Brock's right about the engine and hull dates and that's one thing that immediately put me off.

I think I'll stick to SS for this project, but its probably a problem we'll face when we come to refit subsim subs. I don't think major refits like that happened to most subs, but its nice to have that option, especially when experimenting with new tech without building a one-off prototype etc.


Only three of those men are actually the gun, two seem to be standing around and the other is on the mic. Seems more than wasteful than anything. Mind you, given the age of snorts are upon us and most aircraft now have radar and rockets and such, is a 20-25mm cannon really worth it? What sub commander is going to try and face down the kinds of aircraft and weaponry we have in WW unless the batts are flat and the snorkel is bent?

32

Wednesday, February 25th 2015, 1:53pm

Quoted

Only three of those men are actually the gun, two seem to be standing around and the other is on the mic. Seems more than wasteful than anything.

The guy on the right and on the left both are talking to someone on the mic, probably with firecontrol directors as to where the enemy is coming from. The third one might be the one who handles the ammunition from the storage to the gun and who has made sure that right now his buddy loader on the gun has enough to last him a few minutes. Looking now closer at it, there appears to be some gun behind the two on the left, so perhaps they are crew to that one...

Quoted

Mind you, given the age of snorts are upon us and most aircraft now have radar and rockets and such, is a 20-25mm cannon really worth it? What sub commander is going to try and face down the kinds of aircraft and weaponry we have in WW unless the batts are flat and the snorkel is bent?

Most likely not, but there could still be the occassion where the submarine is on the surface next to a supply ship and being refueled and rearmed. Still, depending on what stats they'll have, it is possible that the next class of Japanese submarines will not have any AA guns.