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1

Wednesday, November 15th 2017, 4:46pm

Philippine Designs for 1949

Repository for information relating to the subject. Comments welcome.

2

Wednesday, November 15th 2017, 4:49pm

Numancia-class Ocean Escort

Numancia, Philippine Ocean Escort laid down 1949

Displacement: 1,390 t light; 1,476 t standard; 1,721 t normal; 1,917 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

355.53 ft / 344.49 ft x 39.37 ft x 10.50 ft (normal load) [108.37 m / 105.00 m x 12.00 m x 3.20 m]

Armament:

4 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (2x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1949 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on centerline ends, evenly spread
8 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1949 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1949 Model Machine guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 196 lbs / 89 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 450
3 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armor:

Gun armor: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 11,008 shp / 8,212 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 441 tons

Complement: 133 - 173

Cost: £0.814 million / $3.255 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 25 tons, 1.4 %
Armor: 12 tons, 0.7 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 9 tons, 0.5 %
- Armor Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 266 tons, 15.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 938 tons, 54.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 331 tons, 19.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 8.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 4,084 lbs / 1,852 Kg = 88.0 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 13.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.59

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has rise forward of midbreak and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.423
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m (11.48 ft / 3.50 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (25 %): 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Stern: 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Average freeboard: 15.47 ft / 4.72 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.4 %
Waterplane Area: 8,797 Square feet or 817 Square meters
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 193 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 63 lbs/sq ft or 308 Kg/sq meter
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 3.14
- Overall: 1.10
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Breakdown of Miscellaneous Weight

Reserved for air warning radar - 20 tons
Reserved for surface search radar - 20 tons
Reserved for fire control radar - 20 tons
Reserved for AS detection equipment - 20 tons
Reserved for Ahead-Thrown AS Weapon - 30 tons
Reserved for AS outfit including DC and K-guns - 40 tons

3

Wednesday, November 15th 2017, 4:50pm

Type 1949 Motor Torpedo Boat

Tonnage: 70
Dimensions: 25.4 x 6.24 x 1.24 meters
Machinery: Four shafts, four marine diesel engines, each 1,200 bhp; 44 knots
Radius: 1,000 nm at 14 knots, 600 nm at 33 knots
Crew: 20
Armament: Four 533mm torpedoes, four 25mm autocannon in twin mounts
Sensors: Type 103 ‘Nalca’

4

Friday, December 1st 2017, 1:28pm

1949 Battlecruiser Design Sketch

Something that the Philippine admirals have dreamt of.

TBD, Philippine Battlecruiser laid down 1949

Displacement: 26,198 t light; 27,396 t standard; 29,973 t normal; 32,035 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

799.36 ft / 780.84 ft x 95.14 ft x 26.25 ft (normal load) [243.65 m / 238.00 m x 29.00 m x 8.00 m]

Armament:

9 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (3x3 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.82kg shells, 1949 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centerline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
2 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (1x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1949 Model Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist on centerline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (6x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1949 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on side, evenly spread
16 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1949 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,988 lbs / 3,170 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armor:

Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.45" / 240 mm 557.74 ft / 170.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmored
Main Belt covers 110 % of normal length

Torpedo Bulkhead: 1.97" / 50 mm 557.74 ft / 170.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m

Gun armor: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Armor deck: 5.51" / 140 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 135,779 shp / 101,291 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 8,500nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,638 tons

Complement: 1,138 - 1,480

Cost: £16.114 million / $64.458 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 873 tons, 2.9 %
Armor: 10,440 tons, 34.8 %
- Belts: 2,888 tons, 9.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 666 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 1,199 tons, 4.0 %
- Armor Deck: 5,441 tons, 18.2 %
- Conning Tower: 246 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 3,283 tons, 11.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,452 tons, 38.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,775 tons, 12.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 56,769 lbs / 25,750 Kg = 84.8 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 9.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 5.9 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 16.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.538
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.21: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.26 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 22.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 37.73 ft / 11.50 m
- Forecastle (22 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Mid (40 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Quarterdeck (22 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Stern: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Average freeboard: 23.86 ft / 7.27 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 197.5 %
Waterplane Area: 53,361 Square feet or 4,957 Square meters
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 155 lbs/sq ft or 757 Kg/sq meter
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.19
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

5

Thursday, October 25th 2018, 6:57pm

An Alternative: Heavy Cruiser instead of Battlecruiser?

It's nearly a year since I first postulated my Philippine plans for 1949, and things have changed somewhat. China appears to be player-less at the moment, so I can consider an alternative to the single battlecruiser I had originally thought of constructing. My thoughts have turned to constructing a pair of heavy cruisers instead, the design of which is shown below. Your critiques are welcome.

TBD, Philippine Heavy Cruiser laid down 1949

Displacement: 13,460 t light; 14,157 t standard; 16,000 t normal; 17,475 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

682.70 ft / 670.93 ft x 72.18 ft x 22.47 ft (normal load)
208.09 m / 204.50 m x 22.00 m x 6.85 m

Armament:

9 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (3x3 guns), 282.57lbs / 128.17kg shells, 1949 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
2 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (1x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1949 Model Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist on centreline aft
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (6x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1949 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on side, all amidships
48 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (12x4 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1949 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,544 lbs / 1,608 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180
8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 1.18" / 30 mm 244.42 ft / 74.50 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.15" / 80 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 95,063 shp / 70,917 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 9,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,318 tons

Complement: 710 - 924

Cost: £8.897 million / $35.586 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 443 tons, 2.8 %
Armour: 3,782 tons, 23.6 %
- Belts: 1,531 tons, 9.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 711 tons, 4.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,486 tons, 9.3 %
- Conning Tower: 54 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,298 tons, 14.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,736 tons, 42.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,540 tons, 15.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 26,965 lbs / 12,231 Kg = 95.4 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 3.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 15.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.515
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.30: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.68 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.17 ft / 9.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 25.43 ft / 7.75 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Stern: 20.51 ft / 6.25 m
- Average freeboard: 22.22 ft / 6.77 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 163.2 %
Waterplane Area: 34,015 Square feet or 3,160 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 644 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.01
- Longitudinal: 1.39
- Overall: 1.05
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

6

Friday, October 26th 2018, 10:24am

I think you would probably get better utility from a couple of heavy cruisers than a single battlecruiser.

The armament looks good, perhaps a tad overkill on the LAA but given the size of the Chinese AF having some good dakka is probably a wise move.
Armour looks good, I might have been tempted for a tad more deck armour but that would probably bloat the ship a bit in terms of displacement.
Speed and range seems pretty standard.
Is there any particular reason for the overall 1.05 hull strength? If not you could trim it and perhaps eek out some more speed or touch up the armour a bit?

7

Friday, October 26th 2018, 6:18pm

Taking James's suggestion, I tried dialing in a 1.0 strength and came up with a Rev B. It is slightly less of a burden on the budget.

***************

Revision B

TBD, Philippine Heavy Cruiser laid down 1949

Displacement: 13,090 t light; 13,788 t standard; 15,600 t normal; 17,050 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

681.06 ft / 669.29 ft x 72.18 ft x 22.47 ft (normal load) [207.59 m / 204.00 m x 22.00 m x 6.85 m]

Armament:

9 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (3x3 guns), 282.57lbs / 128.17kg shells, 1949 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centerline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
2 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (1x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1949 Model Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist on centerline aft
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (6x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1949 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on side, all amidships
24 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1949 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,617 lbs / 1,641 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180
8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armor:

Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 1.18" / 30 mm 241.14 ft / 73.50 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
1.64 ft / 0.50 m Unarmored ends
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

Gun armor: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.15" / 80 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Armor deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 93,136 shp / 69,480 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 9,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,262 tons

Complement: 697 - 907

Cost: £8.806 million / $35.225 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 452 tons, 2.9 %
Armor: 3,762 tons, 24.1 %
- Belts: 1,528 tons, 9.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 715 tons, 4.6 %
- Armor Deck: 1,467 tons, 9.4 %
- Conning Tower: 53 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,252 tons, 14.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,423 tons, 41.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,510 tons, 16.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 26,005 lbs / 11,796 Kg = 92.0 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 2.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 15.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.503
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.27: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.69 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.17 ft / 9.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 25.43 ft / 7.75 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Stern: 20.51 ft / 6.25 m
- Average freeboard: 22.22 ft / 6.77 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 163.9 %
Waterplane Area: 33,563 Square feet or 3,118 Square meters
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 621 Kg/sq meter
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.36
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

8

Friday, October 26th 2018, 8:29pm

Do you already have an 8" gun in service, or might you be interested in evaluating the French 20cm/L55, as used on Marseillaise et al?

9

Friday, October 26th 2018, 9:35pm

Do you already have an 8" gun in service, or might you be interested in evaluating the French 20cm/L55, as used on Marseillaise et al?


The main armament of my existing Basilan class heavy cruisers are 21cm. While the 20cm auto is an excellent gun, commonality suggests sticking to 21cm.

10

Saturday, October 27th 2018, 12:06pm

I think its worth saving that little bit of tonnage and the end result looks good.