You are not logged in.

1

Sunday, May 25th 2003, 7:14pm

Rome Revue December 1920

Rumours are circulating the fleet as new designs are drawn up for treaty battleships; these will replace the predreadnought battleships operated by our fleet. When completed these magnificent ships will be the most powerful ships afloat and a proclaimation that Italy is once again becoming a major power in the world today.

In other news the second Francesco Caracciolo class vessel has been launched. The Cristoforto Columbo is the last of this class apart from Francesco Morosini which is currently being built at Genoa as Italy's first, and the world's largest aircraft carrier.

Le voci stanno facendo circolare la flotta mentre i nuovi disegni sono elaborati per i battleships di trattato; questi sostituiranno i battleships del predreadnought funzionati dalla nostra flotta. Una volta completate queste navi magnifiche saranno le navi più potenti a galla e un proclaimation che l'Italia ancora una volta sta transformandosi in oggi in un'alimentazione importante nel mondo. In altre notizie il secondo vaso del codice categoria di Francesco Caracciolo è stato lanciato. Il Cristoforto Columbo è l'ultimo di questo codice categoria oltre a Francesco Morosini che attualmente sta costruendo a Genova come Italia prima e l'elemento portante di più grande velivolo del mondo.


I don't know if the Italian is correct; i used Babelfish.


2

Tuesday, May 27th 2003, 1:56pm

cool touch on the Italian!

cheers

Bernhard

3

Wednesday, May 28th 2003, 12:20am

agreed

Very impressive, allthough i'm not sure your carriers will be the largest. The Fearless and Arrogant will displace 33500 tons standard (37,100 max) and are 820 feet long with a 100 foot beam and 26 foot draft.
Nice touch with the Italian translation.

4

Wednesday, May 28th 2003, 11:23am

The treaty says your carriers will be 30,000t standard. And as an Italian newspaper the Rome Revue will surely proclaim that Italian ships have no match on the seas.

In reality Francesco Morosini is shorter than Fearless.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

  • Send private message

5

Wednesday, May 28th 2003, 12:24pm

???

Ehm, Wes, Red Admiral is right... 33.500ts ?!?!

6

Wednesday, May 28th 2003, 12:44pm

That's right...

However, I thought the deal made with Atlantis allowed them to build two 33,000 ton carriers instead of 27,000 tons, so how did the 30,000 tons creap into the treaty ?

Walter

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

  • Send private message

7

Wednesday, May 28th 2003, 2:07pm

CV tonnage

Actually, one should maybe read the Cleito Treaty Draft again and take care not to meddle it with the WT.

Under the CT the max tonnage for a CV is set at 22kts. To allow some signatories to re-design unfinished units they otherwise would have to scrap and to keep the balance at a whole, each country is allowed to build up to two carriers of 27kts. This limit takes care of the fact that rebuilds normally are not as effectice as purpose build units.

Due to special circumstances, Atlantis is allowed two 30kts CVs instead of two 27kts units but otherwise also has to stick to the 22kts limit for further units.

NOBODY is allowed anything beyond 30kts. So if Wes builds two 33,5kts CVs, he´s violating the Treaty.

8

Wednesday, May 28th 2003, 5:10pm

So that means that someone violates the treaty before it is signed. Better try and get rid of another 3,500 tons. :-)
Thinking of it now, I believe I got confused with an error in one of the previous versions of the treaty which stated that Atlantis was allowed 33,000 tons rather than 30,000 tons.

Walter

9

Thursday, May 29th 2003, 1:33am

that is correct

The agreement as i know it was for 33,000 tons because they were from the only suitable hulls available.
This is why i pushed for a 33,000 ton limit and not the 27,000 ton limit. I have agreed to take three capital ships out of the fleet as a result of the 6000 ton difference, two 27,800 ton BC's and a 28,000 ton BB. This reduces my capital ship fleet from 14 to 11 and also uses up a huge ammount of my carrier tonnage. The 3 ships taken out of the fleet cannot be replaced by new ships untill the date which if they were still in service would be decommistioned (1929/30).
So you see even with the extra large carriers i'm taking a huge penalty for useing the only suitable hulls available.

10

Thursday, May 29th 2003, 9:05am

Now I see it...

I found the error I thought of. However it had nothing to do with Atlantis.

Quoted

Notwithstanding Part 3, Chapter B, Article II above, any of the
Contracting Powers may, provided that its total tonnage allowance of
aircraft carriers is not thereby exceeded, build not more than two
aircraft carriers, each of a tonnage of not more than 33,000 tons
(33,528 metric tons) standard displacement, and in order to effect
economy any of the Contracting Powers may use for this purpose any
two of their ships, whether constructed or in course of construction,
which would otherwise be scrapped under the provisions of Part 3,
Chapter A, Article V above. The armament of any aircraft carriers
exceeding 22,000 tons (22,354 metric tons) standard displacement
shall be in accordance with the requirements of Part 3, Chapter B,
Article VII below.


The error made was regarding maximum for two carriers for all countries. But this was only for Atlantis. The other nations have a max of 27,000.
We might not have that particular thread anymore regarding the two conversions of those Atlantean BCs but it was decided that the maximum allowed for those carriers was 33,000 tons , not 30,000 tons since Wes thought that the weight of those carriers couldn't get much under 33,000 tons.

Walter

11

Thursday, May 29th 2003, 10:46pm

thats is correct

Here is the original BC design, her two sisters have been completed as BC's. As you can see the conversion of the BC to CV I can only ditch around 3650 tons by removing the BC armor and guns and replacing it with lighter armor. I also had to use half of the original 5.5" secondary guns (8 instead of 14) for the design to keep the weight down.

Arrogants/fearless, Atlantis battlecruiser laid down 1918

Displacement:
35,416 t light; 37,214 t standard; 38,760 t normal; 39,841 t full load
Loading submergence 1,652 tons/feet

Dimensions:
820.00 ft x 101.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
249.94 m x 30.78 m x 8.53 m

Armament:
8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4 Main turrets x 2 guns, 2 superfiring turrets)
14 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm AA guns
14 - 1.00" / 25 mm guns
Weight of broadside 12,276 lbs / 5,568 kg

Armour:
Belt 12.00" / 305 mm, upper belt 4.00" / 102 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 110 % of normal area
Main turrets 12.00" / 305 mm, 2nd gun shields 2.00" / 51 mm
AA gun shields 1.00" / 25 mm
Armour deck 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower 12.00" / 305 mm
Torpedo bulkhead 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 164,699 shp / 122,866 Kw = 31.11 kts
Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts

Complement:
1,381 - 1,795

Cost:
£6.721 million / $26.883 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,534 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 12,232 tons, 31.6 %
Belts: 4,342 tons, 11.2 %, Armament: 3,296 tons, 8.5 %, Armour Deck: 3,744 tons, 9.7 %
Conning Tower: 297 tons, 0.8 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 552 tons, 1.4 %
Machinery: 5,942 tons, 15.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,708 tons, 40.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,344 tons, 8.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Metacentric height 5.2

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.01
Shellfire needed to sink: 38,799 lbs / 17,599 Kg = 28.3 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 4.6
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 71 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.61
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.585
Sharpness coefficient: 0.38
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.41
'Natural speed' for length: 28.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim: 65
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 100.8 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 191.4 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 107 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.02
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 191 lbs / square foot or 930 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.05
(for 24.00 ft / 7.32 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 4.14 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.02

and here is the CV conversion.

Arrogant/Fearless, Atlantis carrier laid down 1920

Displacement:
33,470 t light; 34,388 t standard; 42,647 t normal; 49,084 t full load
Loading submergence 1,818 tons/feet

Dimensions:
830.00 ft x 102.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
252.98 m x 31.09 m x 8.23 m

Armament:
8 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (8 2nd turrets x 1 guns)8 - 3.00" / 76 mm AA guns
12 - 1.00" / 25 mm guns
Weight of broadside 780 lbs / 354 kg

Armour:
Belt 4.00" / 102 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 100 % of normal area
2nd turrets 4.00" / 102 mm
AA gun shields 1.00" / 25 mm, Light gun shields 1.00" / 25 mm
Armour deck 3.00" / 76 mm, Torpedo bulkhead 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 202,901 shp / 151,364 Kw = 32.08 kts
Range 20,400nm at 16.00 kts

Complement:
1,483 - 1,928

Cost:
£5.310 million / $21.240 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 97 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 6,147 tons, 14.4 %
Belts: 1,096 tons, 2.6 %, Armament: 442 tons, 1.0 %, Armour Deck: 3,532 tons, 8.3 %
Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 1,078 tons, 2.5 %
Machinery: 7,094 tons, 16.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,931 tons, 30.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 9,177 tons, 21.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 7,200 tons, 16.9 %

Metacentric height 8.1

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.29
Shellfire needed to sink: 59,173 lbs / 26,840 Kg = 547.9 x 6 " / 152 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 6.8
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 67 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.02
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.39

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.653
Sharpness coefficient: 0.41
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.27
'Natural speed' for length: 28.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim: 48
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 93.2 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 245.2 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 151 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.03
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs / square foot or 684 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.19
(for 30.00 ft / 9.14 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 9.76 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.04