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1

Monday, January 21st 2008, 3:52pm

Aeronautica Italiana

Aeronautica Italiana

Fighter Squadron
4 Flights of 4 aircraft
4 Additional aircraft
2 Utility aircraft
1 Anti-Aircraft Battery (8 x 75/46, 12 x 25mm OTO-Madsen)

Bomber Squadron
3 Flights of 4 aircraft
3 additional aircraft
4 Utility aircraft
1 Anti-Aircraft Battery (8 x 75/46, 12 x 25mm OTO-Madsen)

Fighter Stormo
3 Fighter Squadrons (48 combat aircraft)

Bomber Stormo
4 Bomber Squadrons (48 combat aircraft)
1 Reconnaissance Squadron (12 aircraft)

Air Division
2 Fighter Stormo (96 aircraft)
3 Bomber Stormo (144 + 36 aircraft)
Technical Support Unit
Logistical Support Unit

1st Air Region (Northern Italy)
4 Air Divisions
2nd Air Region (Central Italy and Adriatic)
3 Air Divisions
3rd Air Region (Southern Italy, Sardinia and Sicily)
2 Air Divisions
Tripolitania and Cyrenaica, 1 Air Division


Aircraft in Service as of 1st Jan 1936
Total: 3944

Fighters: (924)
Fiat CR.20 (48)
Caproni-Chiodi CH.1 (48) CH.1bis (144)
Caproni Ca.165 (60)
Fiat CR.35 (576)
Reggiane Falco I (12)

Bombers: (1392)
IMAM Ro.21 (192)
Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 (576)
Savoia-Marchetti SM.81 (288)
Magni-Jona J.10 (240)
Breda Ba.67 (96)

Reconnaissance: (360)
Caproni Ca.309 (120)
IMAM Ro.37 (192)
Magni-Jona J.10R (36)
Macchi C.200R (12)

Transport: (416)
Savoia-Marchetti SM.81 (192)
Savoia-Marchetti SM.75 (224)

Marina Italiana: (588)
Macchi C.200 (144)
Reggiane Falco II (48)
IMAM Ro.21 (168)
Breda Ba.67 (12)
CANT Z.501 (216)

Esercito:(264)
Caproni Ca.309 (24)
IMAM Ro.37 (168)
IMAM Ro.1 (24)
Breda Ba.65 (48)

Current Specifications:
R.21/34 : Fighter-bomber, carrier-capable
R.24/34 : Spec to Fiat for Interceptor/Heavy Fighter
R.101/34 : Heavy bomber, resulting in CANT Z.1015 and P.50 prototypes. Cancelled 1935
R.103/35 : Medium Bomber, replacement of SM.79 and SM.81

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "Red Admiral" (Jan 21st 2008, 3:55pm)


2

Tuesday, January 22nd 2008, 6:34pm

Missed this one.

Aren't the numbers a bit execise? I mean you have more than 2,000 cutting edge combat aircraft.

3

Tuesday, January 22nd 2008, 9:37pm

Its smaller than the historical force which comprised of around 6700 aircraft of all types and about 3000 modern ones. I'm not really sure what counts as cutting edge, pretty much only the Macchi C.200, Reggiane Falco and Breda Ba.67 are all-metal construction belonging to the mid/late 30s generation of OTL.

4

Tuesday, January 22nd 2008, 9:55pm

The Fiat CR.35 may not be all-metal, but otherwise it's more than adequate. All-metal wasn't all that common in the late 30s, LOTS of designs had fabric on at least the control surfaces and plenty of designs included wood for part of the structure.

Certainly the J.10 would also count as modern, as would the SM.79, and absolutely the Ba.67.

5

Tuesday, January 22nd 2008, 10:26pm

I suppose so. About the same size as historically but with newer aircraft. No BR.20, Ba.88 or Ca.135 so the slack in bombers is made up with the SM.79 mostly, but still in fewer numbers than historically. The J.10 has been a bit problematical in service and is fielded in far fewer numbers. Theres a current spec to replace all the medium bombers with a new design, with the possibility of an order of over 1000 aircraft for the winner...

I've noticed I missed some floatplanes from the Aeronautica Marina, they'll get added sometime.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Red Admiral" (Jan 22nd 2008, 10:32pm)


6

Tuesday, February 12th 2008, 9:02pm

Some design concepts for the medium bomber specification, probably won't fly until late 1936/early 1937. Specification calls for an aircraft to carry 2000kg of bombs over 1600km.



A conventional Fiat design with 2xIsotta-Fraschini inline engines in wing nacelles. Ventral bomb bay and dorsal turret. Heavily armed with a 37mm cannon in the nose. Crew of three.





Three designs from Caproni. First uses Isotta-Fraschini engines, the other Fiat inlines. Long ventral bomb bay for carriage of a torpedo internally. 2 or 4x 25mm cannon in the lower nose. Upper right shows another possible wing arrangement.



Unconventional design from Savoia-Marchetti. Two buried Isotta-Fraschini engines driving a tractor prop through an extension shaft. 2 x 37mm cannon in outer wings. Scrap view shows possible carrier, reconnaissance and rear firing gun arrangements.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Red Admiral" (Feb 12th 2008, 9:04pm)


7

Sunday, March 9th 2008, 1:13am

Italian Aircraft Development Plans 1936+

1.Development of the Fiat CR.36 fighter continues. First conceived as a simple retrofitting of the existing CR.35, it matured into a new project with all-new forward fuselage and wings. Experience in South America showing the need for armouring and heavier armament. Two 20mm Oerlikon FFL cannon are placed in the wings in place of the 7.7mm mgs. The rate of fire is low, at 350rpm, but the guns are lightweight and pack considerable punch. First examples should fly in 1936 and after successful tests, new airframes will be built, and the old ones reconditioned. Probably won't be developed any further given the small size.

2.The Reggiane Falco fighter will continue to be built in 1936 with roughly 300 examples ordered, most will go into service on aircraft carriers, with the remainder serving on land in a fighter-bomber role. The production line will continue to churn them out as Iberia currently has a large order for the type. Development from the engine, which may start some testing with 100-octane fuel supplied by the UKN in 1938. This'll allow engine power to be raised to about 1450hp with increases in performance.

3.Twelve pre-production prototypes of the Fiat G.50 fighter/interceptor will be built in 1936. Development will not go well, with temperamental engines and a variety of problems from high altitude operation; guns freezing, oxygen pipes freezing, misting etc. The rather more lethal problem will be found during diving tests, a tendency to dive straight into the ground after encountering mach effects. The last problem won't be solved entirely, but it'll delay in service date by a fair bit. Possible solutions include air brakes along the same lines as dive brakes, reversible pitch propellers and thinner tailplane. When eventually entering service around 1940, it'll be armed with a 37/54 and 13.2mm mgs.

4.Might see some design from Macchi, but two fighter types is probably enough. Might end up just being an export type.

5.There aren't any heavy bombers, the projects being cancelled in 1935 due to excessive cost. The decision seems to be vindicated by experience in South America. Six examples of the Piaggio P.50 and CANT Z.1014 were slowly built and are used as development aircraft for a variety of things; armament trials, engine trials, radar and communication trials, transports

6.A project for a medium bomber to replace the Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 and SM.81 will come to fruition in 1937-38 with two types being ordered. One will look similar to the Tu-91 and be mostly used as an attack/light bomber role and the other is a more conventional medium bomber.

The only other major aircraft project will be a very large passenger aircraft built by Piaggio and partly subsidized by the government and other commercial concerns. The aim is to build an aircraft that can fly Rome  New York in one go, but a stop off in Iberia will be used at first. Requires quite a bit of research and most likely won't enter passenger service until 1943ish. It'll be good competition for the airships, well it'll probably end their rule. Italy is interested in a version for use in the maritime reconnaissance role.

Engines
Alfa-Romeo; A small inverted V-12 similar size and power to the Merlin will get a fair bit of use. Other project is a two-row radial based off the Pegasus. Should be good for 1700-1800hp+ but is rather large diameter. It'll be aimed more towards transport aircraft.

Fiat; Carry on development of the AS.6 for the Schneider Trophy races and will probably generate obscene amounts of power by the end. Only other big project is for the A.60 double engine, which will take some time to get right.

Isotta-Fraschini
Development mostly focussed around the large Asso derivative. Drive to develop the petrol version more with better supercharging. Also on the cards is a diesel version with much reduced fuel consumption.

Other bits and pieces;
Campini already a ground test running of his afterburning ducted fan. One the Z.1014s will act as a flying test bed to test the dynamic performance. It won't really lead anywhere, but will give a lot of knowledge in various systems  afterburning, vg nozzles, axial compressors. When hearing that proper jet engines are running things will kick into gear a bit more. Development will follow along the lines of the RAE/Metrovick with axial turbines.

Guns; the 13.2mm mg is more or less sufficient at the moment. The 20mm Oerlikon FFL will be improved over the next few years with higher rate of fire and drum feed but not urgently. Some work will be done on 37mm and 47mm cannon for heavier, armoured targets, also there'll be some tests of a 105mm gun on one of the Piaggio P.50s. Some work done on motorguns, starting with simple things like the Gebauer GKM in 7.7mm and then moving to 13.2mm. Then things might split a bit more with electric motorguns instead of driven off the engine which allows some more degree of choice in where to mount them. Long term project for a indigenous 25mm, 27mm or 30mm weapon to replace the 20mm Oerlikon. I haven't decided on calibre yet.

8

Sunday, March 9th 2008, 1:25am

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral




Three designs from Caproni. First uses Isotta-Fraschini engines, the other Fiat inlines. Long ventral bomb bay for carriage of a torpedo internally. 2 or 4x 25mm cannon in the lower nose. Upper right shows another possible wing arrangement.

Bulgaria inquires as to whether the Kaproni Bulgarski factory will be able or permitted to produce this design. If so, then the Royal Bulgarian Airforce will signal its interest in purchasing the aircraft.

9

Sunday, March 9th 2008, 10:32am

Quite possibly, but it'll be 1938ish before its around.

10

Sunday, March 9th 2008, 10:41pm



Its grown quite a bit recently, with larger fuselage and wings in order to accommodate a larger bombload. Also added a dorsal turret to give some degree to protection.

11

Monday, July 13th 2009, 12:04am

Aircraft in Service as of 1st Jan 1937
Total: 3845

Fighters: (1008)
Caproni-Chiodi CH.1bis (144)
Caproni Ca.165 (60)
Fiat CR.35 (456)
Fiat CR.36 (180)
Macchi C.200 (72)
Macchi C.202 (96)

Bombers: (1524)
IMAM Ro.21 (192)
Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 (588)
Savoia-Marchetti SM.81 (288)
Magni-Jona J.10 (240)
Breda Ba.67 (216)

Reconnaissance: (360)
Caproni Ca.309 (120)
IMAM Ro.37 (192)
Magni-Jona J.10R (36)
Macchi C.200R (12)

Transport: (416)
Savoia-Marchetti SM.81 (192)
Savoia-Marchetti SM.75 (224)

Marina Italiana: (648)
Caproni Ca.165 (36)
Reggiane Falco II (132)
IMAM Ro.21 (120)
Breda Ba.67 (96)
CANT Z.501 (216)
CANT Z.506 (48)

Esercito:(264)
Caproni Ca.309 (24)
IMAM Ro.37 (168)
IMAM Ro.1 (24)
Breda Ba.65 (48)

Current Specifications:
R.21/34 : Fighter-bomber, carrier-capable Filled by Reggiane Falco
R.24/34 : Spec to Fiat for Interceptor/Heavy Fighter still current
R.51/37 : Light Army cooperation aircraft
R.101/34 : Heavy bomber, resulting in CANT Z.1015 and P.50 prototypes. Cancelled 1935
R.103/35 : Medium Bomber, replacement of SM.79 and SM.81Current competition
R.107/37 : India Bomber
R.152/37 : New advanced trainer

Engines
Alfa-Romeo;
Development of V12 Vortice halted to concentrate on other projects.
AR 135 double row radial in production and reasonably reliable at 1700hp. Development focusing on improving power at low altitude

Fiat; Development of AS.6 racing engine continues with 3500hp the goal for 1937 Scneider Trophy races.
Development of A.38 inline going better after a large redesign. Expected to be ready for use later this year with G.50 program

Isotta-Fraschini
Drive to improve reliability of Asso 2000, currently being selected for most entries in the medium bomber competition. Delta diesel variety currently undergoing initial testing.

Guns;
8mm Gebauer 34M is the standard medium machine gun
13.2mm Scotti is the standard heavy machine gun
13.2mm Breda-SAFAT recently adopted after company made improvements to increase rof after losing previous competition to IF-Scotti
20mm Oerlikon FFL, standard drum fed version
20mm Scotti, large and powerful gun with belt feed and increased rate of fire over FFL, recently adopted.
37mm Breda being adapted for airborne use

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Red Admiral" (Jul 13th 2009, 12:16am)


12

Monday, July 13th 2009, 12:10am

What happened to all the pics?

13

Monday, July 13th 2009, 12:19am

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
What happened to all the pics?


I can't actually remember which pics they are. Italian designers have since moved on to other projects.

14

Sunday, March 7th 2010, 8:40pm

Aircraft in Service as of 1st Jan 1939
Total: 3900

Army Air Force
Fighters: (380)
Fiat CR.35 (200)
Fiat CR.36 (180)

Bombers: (1420)
Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 (580)
Savoia-Marchetti SM.81 (280)
Magni-Jona J.10 (240)
Breda Ba.65 (40)
Breda Ba.67 (280)

Reconnaissance: (400)
Caproni Ca.309 (180)
IMAM Ro.37 (180)
Magni-Jona J.10R (20)
Macchi C.200R (20)

Transport: (460)
Savoia-Marchetti SM.81 (240)
Savoia-Marchetti SM.75 (220)

Air Defence Force
Fighters: (400)
Fiat CR.36 (220)
Macchi C.202 (180)

Marina Italiana
Fighters: (320)
Reggiane Falco II (320)

Bombers: (240)
IMAM Ro.21 (120)
Breda Ba.67 (120)

Reconnaissance: (280)
CANT Z.501 (200)
CANT Z.506 (80)

Current Specifications:
- Fighter-bomber, carrier-capable (Caproni 2005)
- Heavy Fighter/Intercepter (Fiat G.55)
- Light Army cooperation aircraft
- Medium Bomber, replacement of SM.79 and SM.81 (Caproni Astore)
- Long range bomber/reconnaissance (Fiat Scorpione)
- New advanced trainer (Ambrosini S.7)

Engines in Development
Alfa-Romeo;
AR 136 RC.25 18 cylinder radial
AR 1101 RC.32/76 28 cylinder radial

Fiat;
A.38 RC.12/40/58 V16 inline

Caproni-Isotta-Fraschini;
Asso 2500 diesel
C.I-1500 Campini type

Guns;
8mm Gebauer 34M
11mm Madsen
13.2mm IFS
20mm Oerlikon FFL, standard drum fed version
20mm IFS
37mm Breda being adapted for airborne use

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Red Admiral" (Aug 27th 2010, 10:54am)


15

Monday, March 8th 2010, 7:37pm



Various design variants of the Caproni Ca.1000 Astore medium bomber. Most notably higher altitude performance from extended wings and Fiat A.38 engines. Need to draw up some jet derivatives as well...

16

Saturday, March 13th 2010, 5:32pm

Nice looking bomber, looks like its going to be Italy's version of the OTL Ju-88 with bomber and and interdictor/night-fighter variants. Probably that Breda 37mm under development will end up on this too. It would be a good ship buster and just painfully reminds the RAF how outdated its medium and light bomber forces are.

Any specs yet?

17

Saturday, March 13th 2010, 5:40pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Any specs yet?


Some specs and history in this thread.

It's getting into Ju-88/Mosquito/A-26 territory though has a larger fuselage to accommodate a more significant internal bombload. Larger Mosquito is the best way to describe it. Apart from fighter-bombers this is basically going to be it for the air forces's strike capability. Should be reasonable as an anti-shipping aircraft with room for a 450mm torpedo internally or a couple of 500mm ones.

18

Sunday, March 21st 2010, 12:32pm



First prototype of Fiat Pescatore long range bomber/reconnaissance with Alfa-Romeo 135 engines. Probably a bit underpowered if flown at max weight but should be enough to get some flight testing in and make sure that the various systems work.