Dear visitor, welcome to WesWorld. If this is your first visit here, please read the Help. It explains in detail how this page works. To use all features of this page, you should consider registering. Please use the registration form, to register here or read more information about the registration process. If you are already registered, please login here.

As a player, I don't like dealing with a multiplicity of ship types; they're excessively confusing to keep track of, which makes things hard to deal with and less fun than they should be. Fortunately, building a 'multimission' hull is the kind of thing that navies find very attractive, if they can make it work, so my laziness is explicable in-character.

Thus, the design spec I'm asking of Nordmark's destroyers includes ASW, antiaircraft, and torpedo-deployment all together in a hull small enough to be affordable and large enough to operate in company with the carrier groups. Variant-tinkering suggests that cutting the operational range down to about 4,000 nm would be enough to get an additional knot out of the same size hull, albeit with penalties to seakeeping. What do people think?

DD45B, Nordmark Destroyer laid down 1945

Displacement:

1,505 t light; 1,609 t standard; 1,836 t normal; 2,018 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

334.84 ft / 328.08 ft x 32.81 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load)

102.06 m / 100.00 m x 10.00 m x 4.00 m

Armament:

4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 66.14lbs / 30.00kg shells, 1945 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists

on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring

12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (3x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1945 Model

Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts

on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring

Weight of broadside 288 lbs / 131 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 400

8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,

Geared drive, 2 shafts, 43,809 shp / 32,681 Kw = 33.00 kts

Range 5,500nm at 15.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 408 tons

Complement:

139 - 182

Cost:

£1.440 million / $5.759 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 36 tons, 2.0 %

Armour: 10 tons, 0.6 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 10 tons, 0.6 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Machinery: 893 tons, 48.6 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 505 tons, 27.5 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 331 tons, 18.0 %

Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 3.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

449 lbs / 204 Kg = 6.7 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17

Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m

Roll period: 12.3 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 46 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.75

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck

Block coefficient: 0.455

Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m

- Forecastle (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m

- Mid (50 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

- Quarterdeck (10 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

- Stern: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

- Average freeboard: 14.39 ft / 4.39 m

Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 178.3 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 43.3 %

Waterplane Area: 6,894 Square feet or 641 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 71 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 175 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.50

- Longitudinal: 2.01

- Overall: 0.58

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped

Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor

Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Thus, the design spec I'm asking of Nordmark's destroyers includes ASW, antiaircraft, and torpedo-deployment all together in a hull small enough to be affordable and large enough to operate in company with the carrier groups. Variant-tinkering suggests that cutting the operational range down to about 4,000 nm would be enough to get an additional knot out of the same size hull, albeit with penalties to seakeeping. What do people think?

DD45B, Nordmark Destroyer laid down 1945

Displacement:

1,505 t light; 1,609 t standard; 1,836 t normal; 2,018 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

334.84 ft / 328.08 ft x 32.81 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load)

102.06 m / 100.00 m x 10.00 m x 4.00 m

Armament:

4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 66.14lbs / 30.00kg shells, 1945 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists

on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring

12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (3x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1945 Model

Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts

on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring

Weight of broadside 288 lbs / 131 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 400

8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,

Geared drive, 2 shafts, 43,809 shp / 32,681 Kw = 33.00 kts

Range 5,500nm at 15.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 408 tons

Complement:

139 - 182

Cost:

£1.440 million / $5.759 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 36 tons, 2.0 %

Armour: 10 tons, 0.6 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 10 tons, 0.6 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Machinery: 893 tons, 48.6 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 505 tons, 27.5 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 331 tons, 18.0 %

Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 3.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

449 lbs / 204 Kg = 6.7 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17

Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m

Roll period: 12.3 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 46 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.75

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck

Block coefficient: 0.455

Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m

- Forecastle (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m

- Mid (50 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

- Quarterdeck (10 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

- Stern: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

- Average freeboard: 14.39 ft / 4.39 m

Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 178.3 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 43.3 %

Waterplane Area: 6,894 Square feet or 641 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 71 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 175 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.50

- Longitudinal: 2.01

- Overall: 0.58

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped

Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor

Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

That didn't get saved? *checks* Ah, it didn't.

Yeah, Trim 62 gets me Stability 1.13 and Seakeeping 0.81, which seems to be the max in this configuration. Adding another two main guns, by increasing the deck-level mounts to twins, seems to add about a hundred tons and a .12 ding to potential Seakeeping, thus, and I don't really think that safety hit is worth it given the seas the Nords operate in:

DD45C, Nordmark Destroyer laid down 1945

Displacement:

1,642 t light; 1,780 t standard; 2,020 t normal; 2,212 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

334.84 ft / 328.08 ft x 36.09 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load)

102.06 m / 100.00 m x 11.00 m x 4.00 m

Armament:

6 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (4 mounts), 66.14lbs / 30.00kg shells, 1945 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists

on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring

12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (3x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1945 Model

Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts

on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring

Weight of broadside 420 lbs / 191 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 400

8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,

Geared drive, 2 shafts, 47,402 shp / 35,362 Kw = 33.00 kts

Range 5,500nm at 15.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 433 tons

Complement:

149 - 195

Cost:

£1.640 million / $6.561 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 53 tons, 2.6 %

Armour: 15 tons, 0.7 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 15 tons, 0.7 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Machinery: 966 tons, 47.8 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 548 tons, 27.1 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 378 tons, 18.7 %

Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 3.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

459 lbs / 208 Kg = 6.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11

Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m

Roll period: 13.2 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.69

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck

Block coefficient: 0.455

Length to Beam Ratio: 9.09 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 73

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m

- Forecastle (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m

- Mid (50 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

- Quarterdeck (10 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

- Stern: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

- Average freeboard: 14.39 ft / 4.39 m

Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 180.9 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 52.7 %

Waterplane Area: 7,584 Square feet or 705 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 70 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 190 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.50

- Longitudinal: 1.73

- Overall: 0.57

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped

Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

Yeah, Trim 62 gets me Stability 1.13 and Seakeeping 0.81, which seems to be the max in this configuration. Adding another two main guns, by increasing the deck-level mounts to twins, seems to add about a hundred tons and a .12 ding to potential Seakeeping, thus, and I don't really think that safety hit is worth it given the seas the Nords operate in:

DD45C, Nordmark Destroyer laid down 1945

Displacement:

1,642 t light; 1,780 t standard; 2,020 t normal; 2,212 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

334.84 ft / 328.08 ft x 36.09 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load)

102.06 m / 100.00 m x 11.00 m x 4.00 m

Armament:

6 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (4 mounts), 66.14lbs / 30.00kg shells, 1945 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists

on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring

12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (3x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1945 Model

Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts

on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring

Weight of broadside 420 lbs / 191 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 400

8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,

Geared drive, 2 shafts, 47,402 shp / 35,362 Kw = 33.00 kts

Range 5,500nm at 15.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 433 tons

Complement:

149 - 195

Cost:

£1.640 million / $6.561 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 53 tons, 2.6 %

Armour: 15 tons, 0.7 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 15 tons, 0.7 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Machinery: 966 tons, 47.8 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 548 tons, 27.1 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 378 tons, 18.7 %

Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 3.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

459 lbs / 208 Kg = 6.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11

Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m

Roll period: 13.2 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.69

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck

Block coefficient: 0.455

Length to Beam Ratio: 9.09 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 73

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m

- Forecastle (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m

- Mid (50 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

- Quarterdeck (10 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

- Stern: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

- Average freeboard: 14.39 ft / 4.39 m

Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 180.9 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 52.7 %

Waterplane Area: 7,584 Square feet or 705 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 70 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 190 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.50

- Longitudinal: 1.73

- Overall: 0.57

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped

Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

TBD, TBD Destroyer laid down 1945

Displacement:

1,647 t light; 1,751 t standard; 1,911 t normal; 2,040 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

368.18 ft / 360.89 ft x 34.45 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load)

112.22 m / 110.00 m x 10.50 m x 4.00 m

Armament:

4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1945 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists

on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring

8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1945 Model

Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts

on side, all amidships

Weight of broadside 284 lbs / 129 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 400

8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm

2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

- Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,

Geared drive, 2 shafts, 34,368 shp / 25,639 Kw = 33.00 kts

Range 4,000nm at 15.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 289 tons

Complement:

143 - 187

Cost:

£1.401 million / $5.606 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 35 tons, 1.9 %

Armour: 18 tons, 1.0 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 15 tons, 0.8 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.2 %

Machinery: 824 tons, 43.1 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 729 tons, 38.2 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 264 tons, 13.8 %

Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

815 lbs / 370 Kg = 12.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10

Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m

Roll period: 13.1 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.14

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck

and transom stern

Block coefficient: 0.410

Length to Beam Ratio: 10.48 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 21.86 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 20.01 ft / 6.10 m

- Forecastle (20 %): 17.39 ft / 5.30 m

- Mid (50 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m

- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m

- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m

- Average freeboard: 15.89 ft / 4.84 m

Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 158.2 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 69.0 %

Waterplane Area: 7,991 Square feet or 742 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 44 lbs/sq ft or 215 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.62

- Longitudinal: 2.79

- Overall: 0.72

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped

Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Transom...

*facepalm*

My experience in Navalism betrays me again!

...As it does with my habit of limiting to a minimum BC of .45, come to think of it. Anyway.

Let's try... Variant D. Get that knot back to 34 back. I'd like to go a little smaller, but frankly I really doubt it's going to happen in any kind of practical way.

DD45D, Nordmark Destroyer laid down 1945

Displacement:

1,491 t light; 1,594 t standard; 1,784 t normal; 1,936 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

351.24 ft / 344.49 ft x 32.81 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load)

107.06 m / 105.00 m x 10.00 m x 4.00 m

Armament:

4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 66.14lbs / 30.00kg shells, 1945 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists

on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring

12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (3x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1945 Model

Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts

on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring

Weight of broadside 288 lbs / 131 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 400

8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm

2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,

Geared drive, 2 shafts, 38,438 shp / 28,675 Kw = 34.00 kts

Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 342 tons

Complement:

136 - 178

Cost:

£1.368 million / $5.471 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 36 tons, 2.0 %

Armour: 15 tons, 0.9 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 15 tons, 0.9 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Machinery: 823 tons, 46.1 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 557 tons, 31.2 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 293 tons, 16.4 %

Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 3.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

539 lbs / 244 Kg = 8.0 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19

Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m

Roll period: 12.1 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.99

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck

and transom stern

Block coefficient: 0.421

Length to Beam Ratio: 10.50 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 21.32 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m

- Forecastle (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m

- Mid (50 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m

- Quarterdeck (10 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m

- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m

- Average freeboard: 15.49 ft / 4.72 m

Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170.8 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 56.2 %

Waterplane Area: 7,320 Square feet or 680 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 77 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 175 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.50

- Longitudinal: 2.46

- Overall: 0.58

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped

Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

*facepalm*

My experience in Navalism betrays me again!

...As it does with my habit of limiting to a minimum BC of .45, come to think of it. Anyway.

Let's try... Variant D. Get that knot back to 34 back. I'd like to go a little smaller, but frankly I really doubt it's going to happen in any kind of practical way.

DD45D, Nordmark Destroyer laid down 1945

Displacement:

1,491 t light; 1,594 t standard; 1,784 t normal; 1,936 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

351.24 ft / 344.49 ft x 32.81 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load)

107.06 m / 105.00 m x 10.00 m x 4.00 m

Armament:

4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 66.14lbs / 30.00kg shells, 1945 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists

on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring

12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (3x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1945 Model

Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts

on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring

Weight of broadside 288 lbs / 131 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 400

8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm

2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,

Geared drive, 2 shafts, 38,438 shp / 28,675 Kw = 34.00 kts

Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 342 tons

Complement:

136 - 178

Cost:

£1.368 million / $5.471 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 36 tons, 2.0 %

Armour: 15 tons, 0.9 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 15 tons, 0.9 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Machinery: 823 tons, 46.1 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 557 tons, 31.2 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 293 tons, 16.4 %

Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 3.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

539 lbs / 244 Kg = 8.0 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19

Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m

Roll period: 12.1 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.99

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck

and transom stern

Block coefficient: 0.421

Length to Beam Ratio: 10.50 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 21.32 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m

- Forecastle (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m

- Mid (50 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m

- Quarterdeck (10 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m

- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m

- Average freeboard: 15.49 ft / 4.72 m

Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170.8 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 56.2 %

Waterplane Area: 7,320 Square feet or 680 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 77 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 175 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.50

- Longitudinal: 2.46

- Overall: 0.58

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped

Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Maybe. A 0.1m increase in freeboard at the midships point increases seakeeping to 1.01 and light tonnage to 1,507t. Not really sure it's worth it.

Incidentally, I picture the 50s-on upgrade path for these as swapping the 130mm DP guns out for 100mm automatic mounts, and with the CLs, the 150mm guns used there for 125mm autos.

Which will become drastically interesting for the guys downrange of the Luleas.

Incidentally, I picture the 50s-on upgrade path for these as swapping the 130mm DP guns out for 100mm automatic mounts, and with the CLs, the 150mm guns used there for 125mm autos.

Which will become drastically interesting for the guys downrange of the Luleas.

Generally I like it, seems a bog-standard DD. Single guns are rare in WW these days.

My only comment is that 60 tons of misc weight seems a small amount, once you deduct 20tons for sonar and 10-15 tons for radar, you've not got much left for DCs or reload torpedoes on other 'goodies'. If you're after a true multi-role type, I think it would come in closer to 2,000 tons than 1,490.

## Quoted

My only comment is that 60 tons of misc weight seems a small amount, once you deduct 20tons for sonar and 10-15 tons for radar, you've not got much left for DCs or reload torpedoes on other 'goodies'.

Not sure about others, but I calculate 3 tons for the 61cm torpedoes, so in case of Japan's Momo class destroyer, I have 48 tons for 16 torpedoes (8 loaded + 8 reloads) and 40 tons for DCs + gear to launch them. That ship has 250 tons of miscellaneous weights on a vessel that is ~ 2000 tons (normal). The Ukuru class Kaibokan has 66 tons for ASW weaponry on a ~1200 ton (normal) vessel. The Ukuru also carries 250 tons of miscellaneous weights around but it is significantly slower than a destroyer.

So if you were to go for just 8 torpedoes, you would need 24 tons and probably something like 20-25 tons for ~60 DCs and launch gear. I would probably go for some more 40mm rounds as well.

## Quoted

Although this is me talking... I'd call a 2,000t destroyer small, too.

So I guess you plan something much bigger for a 'normal' destroyer then... like a Spruance class DD?

So, judging by discussion, it's sounding to me like my initial guesstimate falls short of the right weight for 'secondary mission gear' by about a hundred tons.

OK; taking that feedback and the hull tweak I was considering, I come out with something about like this...

DD45E, Nordmark Destroyer laid down 1945

Displacement:

1,701 t light; 1,809 t standard; 2,012 t normal; 2,175 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

367.64 ft / 360.89 ft x 36.09 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load)

112.06 m / 110.00 m x 11.00 m x 4.00 m

Armament:

4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 66.14lbs / 30.00kg shells, 1945 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists

on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring

12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (3x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1945 Model

Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts

on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring

Weight of broadside 288 lbs / 131 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 400

8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm

2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,

Geared drive, 2 shafts, 40,268 shp / 30,040 Kw = 34.00 kts

Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 366 tons

Complement:

149 - 195

Cost:

£1.487 million / $5.947 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 36 tons, 1.8 %

Armour: 15 tons, 0.8 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 15 tons, 0.8 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Machinery: 893 tons, 44.4 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 596 tons, 29.6 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 311 tons, 15.5 %

Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 8.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

626 lbs / 284 Kg = 9.3 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20

Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m

Roll period: 12.3 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.96

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck

and transom stern

Block coefficient: 0.412

Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 21.93 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m

- Forecastle (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m

- Mid (50 %): 15.09 ft / 4.60 m

- Quarterdeck (10 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m

- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m

- Average freeboard: 15.62 ft / 4.76 m

Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 168.1 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 73.3 %

Waterplane Area: 8,383 Square feet or 779 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 80 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 37 lbs/sq ft or 179 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.50

- Longitudinal: 1.96

- Overall: 0.57

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped

Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

OK; taking that feedback and the hull tweak I was considering, I come out with something about like this...

DD45E, Nordmark Destroyer laid down 1945

Displacement:

1,701 t light; 1,809 t standard; 2,012 t normal; 2,175 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

367.64 ft / 360.89 ft x 36.09 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load)

112.06 m / 110.00 m x 11.00 m x 4.00 m

Armament:

4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 66.14lbs / 30.00kg shells, 1945 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists

on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring

12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (3x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1945 Model

Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts

on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring

Weight of broadside 288 lbs / 131 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 400

8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm

2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,

Geared drive, 2 shafts, 40,268 shp / 30,040 Kw = 34.00 kts

Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 366 tons

Complement:

149 - 195

Cost:

£1.487 million / $5.947 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 36 tons, 1.8 %

Armour: 15 tons, 0.8 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 15 tons, 0.8 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Machinery: 893 tons, 44.4 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 596 tons, 29.6 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 311 tons, 15.5 %

Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 8.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

626 lbs / 284 Kg = 9.3 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20

Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m

Roll period: 12.3 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.96

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck

and transom stern

Block coefficient: 0.412

Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 21.93 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m

- Forecastle (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m

- Mid (50 %): 15.09 ft / 4.60 m

- Quarterdeck (10 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m

- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m

- Average freeboard: 15.62 ft / 4.76 m

Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 168.1 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 73.3 %

Waterplane Area: 8,383 Square feet or 779 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 80 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 37 lbs/sq ft or 179 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.50

- Longitudinal: 1.96

- Overall: 0.57

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped

Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

## Quoted

So, judging by discussion, it's sounding to me like my initial guesstimate falls short of the right weight for 'secondary mission gear' by about a hundred tons.

Depends on what you think you need on your design and how many of those things you need and what the weight of those things are. Based on that, you enter the amount of miscellaneous weights that you need for all that stuff together...

... not that I do that. I just dump a load of miscellaneous weights on a ship and then struggle to figure out what it should be for. With one design I have been working on lately, I ended up assigning some of the miscellaneous weights I had left over to a sushi restaurant, a pachinko parlor, karaoke facilities, Kobe Cola vending machines and a lounge. It was either that or 0.5 knots extra speed and in my opinion that 0.5 knot speed increase did not add much to the design...

When you're not sure about how much tons something should be, just spy on the designs of others to give you some ideas... at least that is what I do.

Refined Miscellaneous Weight equipment list, developed from my own earlier destroyer refit designs:

5 tons general search radar

2 tons navigational radar

3 tons fire control radar

3 tons fire control computers

4 tons electronic-suite generators

48 tons torpedoes and support equipment

9 tons sonar

40 tons 80x depth charges and launching racks

20 tons 20x depth charges and forward throwing launchers

26 tons unplanned kipple allowance

5 tons general search radar

2 tons navigational radar

3 tons fire control radar

3 tons fire control computers

4 tons electronic-suite generators

48 tons torpedoes and support equipment

9 tons sonar

40 tons 80x depth charges and launching racks

20 tons 20x depth charges and forward throwing launchers

26 tons unplanned kipple allowance

*Saturday, July 4th 2020, 5:30pm*- Go to the top of the page

Forum Software: **Burning Board® Lite 2.1.2 pl 1**, developed by **WoltLab® GmbH**