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1

Monday, October 25th 2004, 5:44am

New Light Cruiser: Chile

Will this work as a light cruiser? Meaning will the number of guns fit within the space allowed?

Rough weapons placement:
-----Starboard-------------2x0.5---2x0.5--37mm---4.3---37mm---4.3---37mm---4.3----------
Bow--------5.9--high 5.9--------3 lb.---------(4 torp)---------(4 torp)--------------------5.9--high 5.9--5.9------
-----Port--------------------2x0.5---2x0.5--37mm---4.3---37mm---4.3---37mm---4.3---------



Maunga Terevaka

Chilean Light Cruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
4,191 t light; 4,360 t standard; 5,000 t normal; 5,492 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
392.00 ft / 385.00 ft x 48.10 ft x 16.25 ft (normal load)
119.48 m / 117.35 m x 14.66 m x 4.95 m

Armament:
5 - 5.90" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.69lbs / 46.58kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 4.30" / 109 mm guns in single mounts, 39.75lbs / 18.03kg shells, 1925 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
6 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1925 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
1 - 1.82" / 46.2 mm guns in single mounts, 3.00lbs / 1.36kg shells, 1925 Model (saluting)
Breech loading gun in deck mount
on centreline forward, 1 raised gun
Weight of broadside 765 lbs / 347 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 48,535 shp / 36,207 Kw = 29.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,152 tons)

Complement:
296 - 386

Cost:
£1.465 million / $5.859 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 96 tons, 1.9 %
Armour: 398 tons, 8.0 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armour Deck: 360 tons, 7.2 %
- Conning Tower: 38 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 1,576 tons, 31.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,072 tons, 41.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 809 tons, 16.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,543 lbs / 2,061 Kg = 44.2 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.5 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 91 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.582
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 75
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.69 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.50 ft / 8.08 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 20.79 ft / 6.34 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.0 %
Waterplane Area: 12,981 Square feet or 1,206 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs/sq ft or 411 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 4.36
- Overall: 1.15
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


2

Monday, October 25th 2004, 10:59am

To make sure all those guns will fit, draw a picture of her. Its the only way.

Shes fairly slow, and doesn't have much armour however.

3

Monday, October 25th 2004, 11:31am

I agree, she could use more speed, perhaps by losing a 5.9" and a few light guns? Drawing her out always helps determine if everything will fit. The toughest part is getting your scale set.

4

Monday, October 25th 2004, 11:54am

Try making the hull some feet longer, It´s too short if you want all those mounts in the centerline, about 60-70 feet. Another option is to have double mounts.

If you want to stay about 4000t, in a longer hull, reduce the beam, that should also help you gaining a bit of speed, however at the cost of some seakeeping.

And you should try reaching at least 31-32 knots of max speed, otherwise this little cruiser won´t be able to outrun many of the heavier cruisers that would torn her apart.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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5

Monday, October 25th 2004, 2:06pm

I can´t but think she would look somewhat like the german Z-class DDs of WW2 - except for her secondaries, that is.

Your sheme gives no idea if it would be possible to place some guns above others. And it also lacks any information about superstructure and funnels.

I agree with the others that drawing her is the ultimate solution to get an idea of deckspace available. Right now I think you´ll run out of it before you´ve placed all your guns.

Reducing draught but increasing length is what I would try to do. Most likely you also have to skip two of your 4,3" guns as there won´t be enough deckspace to allow good arcs to all weapons and TTs anyway and you´ll be able to buy more hull-strength. You know, there should be some kind of splinter protection for your boilers - at least.

What´s the idea behind her CT while there is little armor elsewhere?

Right now she´s a thread to most CLs of WW1 vintage - at least to those afloat around South America and in the southern Pacific but she won´t be able to catch any destroyers or stand a chance against any post-1918 CL. My opinion of course and lucky shots aside...

However, she has good range and I like her just because she´s so different from all the ahead-of-their-era cruisers we see in WesWorld now and then...

Keep it coming,

HoOmAn

6

Monday, October 25th 2004, 7:23pm

You also have quite a bit of hull strength left...

What I'd do is narrow the beam a tad, and increase the speed. "Good Seaboat" is always nice to have but speed, while not armour ;), is life for a CL.

Also, I'd change both the 4.3" and 37mm guns to four twin mounts each.

7

Monday, October 25th 2004, 10:16pm

I agree with Hoo, lose the 6" CT and give her splinter protection all round. Give a drawing a shot, you know you want to!

8

Tuesday, October 26th 2004, 1:33am

Yeah I might want to , but weapon size and mounting sizes elude me at the moment. I've been drawing science fiction ships for so long now, that I don't know what size the real things are. (I draw Star Blazers type ships for non-canon use in MSPaint) With science fiction (top views mostly) you don't have to be too accurate as long as it looks good.

Finally there is an issue that is not addressed in StringStyle...the length of the barrels used. There is some difference between a 5"/38 cal and a 5"/51 cal. The same with a 12"/35 cal and a 12"/50 cal. For example: United States (in WesWorld), while restricted to 15 inch and below, would keep the 14 inch around, even though they have perfected a 16 inch type (two actually) and began work on a 18 inch gun. They could of course reline the barrels and get a longer thinker barrel wall with 14 inch diameter. Might give them a longer range, longer barrel life, and might be the start of the super-heavy rounds the American were fond of with the 16"/50 cal on the Iowa.

9

Tuesday, October 26th 2004, 1:43am

Quoted

What I'd do is narrow the beam a tad, and increase the speed. "Good Seaboat" is always nice to have but speed, while not armour ;), is life for a CL


I've found ships over 29 knots to be difficult with SS. I'd rather have a "Good Seaboat" if I can help it. That will allow the ships to cross the Pacific or slip into the Atlantic past the "Roaring 40s". I might remove some 4.3 inch guns and add a pair of 37mm make them twins.

I'm also working within a length limit. I want to be able to build this class of ships in a Type 1 slip if I can. Might be forced to make her longer, but then I have to build them in the Type 2 slip. I might have mixed up my numbers while I was designing her.

I'll try again, but I was basing the armor off of the existing light cruisers in the fleet (the pre-WWI Nordmark model). Chile is a little behind the style/technology curve, but they plan to make up for it with firepower and range. I should instead design a 1920s proctected cruiser...now that would be different.

10

Wednesday, October 27th 2004, 6:00am

Well, different is what was asked for...

Different is what you will get. The cross-sectional is intentionally low, as this is almost a light fast combatant. So 0.91 sounded reasonable give that this is a backward step in technology. A Protected (and not that well either) Cruiser built in the mid-1920s? With 4 single 208mm guns? Well at least she has a speed of 32.25 knots. (not too bad, but not great either...faster than most of my current destroyers).


Maunga Terevaka

Chilean Protected Cruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
6,501 t light; 6,718 t standard; 7,200 t normal; 7,557 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
490.00 ft / 480.00 ft x 60.00 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
149.35 m / 146.30 m x 18.29 m x 6.40 m

Armament:
4 - 8.20" / 208 mm guns in single mounts, 275.68lbs / 125.05kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4.30" / 109 mm guns in single mounts, 39.75lbs / 18.03kg shells, 1925 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1925 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 1,275 lbs / 578 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 419.00 ft / 127.71 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 61.00 ft / 18.59 m 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Main Belt covers 134 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.50" / 13 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 77,330 shp / 57,688 Kw = 32.25 kts
Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 867 tons)

Complement:
390 - 508

Cost:
£2.333 million / $9.332 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 159 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 897 tons, 12.5 %
- Belts: 369 tons, 5.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 25 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 471 tons, 6.5 %
- Conning Tower: 32 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,511 tons, 34.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,909 tons, 40.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 699 tons, 9.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,974 lbs / 2,256 Kg = 18.0 x 8.2 " / 208 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 89 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.417
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 83
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11.69 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.00 ft / 8.84 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.50 ft / 6.55 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Stern: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Average freeboard: 20.48 ft / 6.24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 129.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139.0 %
Waterplane Area: 16,977 Square feet or 1,577 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 480 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.43
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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11

Wednesday, October 27th 2004, 8:57am

Quoted

Originally posted by Ithekro
Different is what you will get. The cross-sectional is intentionally low, as this is almost a light fast combatant. So 0.91 sounded reasonable give that this is a backward step in technology.


For normal/large designs we focus on overal hull-strength to be at 1,00 or above while cross-sec hs can be lower. That´s the case with your cruiser so there isn´t any problem. Only for light combatants we agree to focus on cross-sec hs for which we agreed on a minimum of 0,5. Confusing, I know, but you´ll easily get used to it.

However, having a cross-sec hs and overall hs somewhat above 1,00 will allow you some leeway for modifications later during a ships career. That´s interesting especially for those designs that are meant to be different or "behind state-of-the-art" when build.

12

Wednesday, October 27th 2004, 3:11pm

It's definitly different... ;)

I actually kinda like it. :)

13

Thursday, October 28th 2004, 3:33am

An alterative

Well this is the same general design with a cross-sectional of 1.00. Had to add ten feet of length (plus some width and depth) and about 250 tons. Lost some seakeeping, and a touch of steadiness. Gained a whole extra shell hit that this ship could take. Is it worth the trade off so make this ship up to a 1.00 cross-sectional? I'm new at this, so I don't know.


Maunga Terevaka

Chilean Protected Cruiser laid down 1925


Displacement:
6,731 t light; 6,953 t standard; 7,450 t normal; 7,818 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
500.00 ft / 490.00 ft x 61.25 ft x 23.00 ft (normal load)
152.40 m / 149.35 m x 18.67 m x 7.01 m

Armament:
4 - 8.20" / 208 mm guns in single mounts, 275.68lbs / 125.05kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 4.30" / 109 mm guns in single mounts, 39.75lbs / 18.03kg shells, 1925 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1925 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 1,275 lbs / 578 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 419.00 ft / 127.71 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 61.00 ft / 18.59 m 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
10.00 ft / 3.05 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 132 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.50" / 13 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 76,506 shp / 57,074 Kw = 32.25 kts
Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 895 tons)

Complement:
400 - 521

Cost:
£2.347 million / $9.388 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 159 tons, 2.1 %
Armour: 905 tons, 12.2 %
- Belts: 369 tons, 4.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 25 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 479 tons, 6.4 %
- Conning Tower: 33 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,484 tons, 33.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,157 tons, 42.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 719 tons, 9.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5,232 lbs / 2,373 Kg = 19.0 x 8.2 " / 208 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.7 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 88 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.378
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.14 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 86
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.50 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.50 ft / 5.64 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Stern: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 18.05 ft / 5.50 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 124.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.5 %
Waterplane Area: 17,250 Square feet or 1,603 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 528 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 2.36
- Overall: 1.09
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

14

Thursday, October 28th 2004, 3:13pm

As I see from this post and all the others you´ve posted, you´re looking for ships that are essentially good artillery platforms and caplable to handle the roughest weathers... I can see the logic in that.

However, just 4 main guns it´s not enough to get a good fire control with the technology of the 20s, as far as I know 6 main guns was the minimal number needed for it, so... what do you need a steady platform for If you can´t get any hits? Why don´t you try a slightly smaller gun?, perhaps 7,5? This gun should still be bigger than the ones in most of the CLs of other navies.

15

Thursday, October 28th 2004, 5:06pm

Since Chile already has 7.5" guns on its old battleships, that might be a good choice.